Do you feel like a representative of an outside group, a representative of Germany, a representative of the communists or post-communists? President Jarosław Kaczyński, during his tours in Poland, said that the PiS today is like the Home Army and Solidarity, and that the opponents of the ruling party are communists, post-communists or representatives of the outside party.

In the 1970s, I was associated with the democratic opposition. I have the status of an anti-communist opposition activist. I absolutely do not feel communist, during the years of my public and professional life I fought the PRL and communism. This can be easily checked. We are dealing with an ambiguous situation, because it is in the PiS environment that there are officers and collaborators of the secret services. In this context, the case of Mr. Kazimierz Kujda is very important. Anti-communist rhetoric is used for show because it goes to part of the electorate. It is about dividing society and acting according to the principle of divide and conquer – divide and conquer. This is a constant practice of President Kaczyński, and let us remember that the most important elections of his career are approaching. If he wins the third election, he will prove his political genius to his supporters. Or, conversely, if the PiS is taken out of power, the PiS will most likely begin to collapse. This party is already a typical power party and if it loses it, significant segments of this party will begin to fall and crumble.

How serious are the divisions within the PiS?

We can see that after the solstice that took place last week – after the famous session outside the parliamentary club – that is, the resignation of Minister Michał Dworczyk as head of the Prime Minister’s Office, there has been some appeasement in the ruling camp. Calm is needed for the PiS to prevent someone from coming to power who can carry out the accounting process for eight years of his rule. There are many cases that need to be clarified, and there is also a lot of evidence. We have, for example, reports and documents of the NIK kept in the offices of the prosecutor.

You can see that the PiS is consolidating towards its higher objective, namely the struggle not to give up power. Therefore, all possible measures are taken to achieve this, such as maneuvers in the electoral law, the postponement of local elections and the payment of money to other social groups that could constitute the natural electoral base of the PiS. We also have actions at the symbolic level, that is to say an attempt to divide society into: patriots and non-patriots, communists and anti-communists, real Poles and false Poles. These are coordinated actions.

It should be remembered that President Kaczyński has good access to good sociological analyses. He knows exactly what he’s saying and where he’s talking. When, for example, he raises the question of reparations from Germany in the northern and western territories of Poland, he realizes that he is touching a very sensitive point there. In other parts of Poland, his message is also formatted for regional and local issues.

A diplomatic note on reparations was created, which was transferred to the German side. Will things change now and will the talks between the Polish Prime Minister and the German Chancellor begin, and will the Poles receive compensation for WWII?

The delivery of a diplomatic note to Germany is a very important political and legal fact. The discussion on reparations will no longer be just a matter of internal political struggle in Poland – the issue will take on an international dimension, especially since Poland and Germany are members of the European Union. I believe that – contrary to what the German side says – with substantial, consistent and long-term actions aimed at European public opinion, Poland could reach an agreement. A good example is compensation for forced laborers deported to the Third Reich. For years, the German government believed that workers were not entitled to compensation, but long-term efforts and debates resulted in compensation – albeit symbolic, insufficient and inconsistent with the expectations of victims or their relatives – have been paid. It is not that the situation is binary, that we have to assume in advance that we will never get this money. You have to be careful about the language you use. One thing is reparation and another is compensation. These terms are used as synonyms and mean something else. The Germans say that the reparations file was closed, but the Polish side never said that the compensation file was closed. Gomułka spoke about this when in 1970 the treaty on the recognition of the border on the Oder and the Nysa was signed. If the Polish government handles this matter consistently, long-term and wisely, there is hope for a positive outcome for Poland. However, the issue of reparations cannot be pursued for ad hoc domestic political purposes, but for the benefit of the state good in a larger context.

Are KPO funds within reach of the Polish government? Can Mateusz Morawiecki still lead to the fact that the announced funds will be transferred to Poland?

Prime Minister Morawiecki had terrible blunders, like the Polish Order, problems with the KPO, naivety and acts to the detriment of the Polish state in European politics. These are very serious charges against the Prime Minister. Mateusz Morawiecki owes the behavior of the Prime Minister’s stool only to the internal situation in Poland and to relations with President Kaczyński. As long as this is the policy of the Polish government, there will be no KPO funds. Awareness of this in society is high.

Note how the government’s narrative has changed. First, it was a great success, the biggest budget and the second Marshall Plan – 770 billion PLN was to flow to Poland and make the country a land of milk and honey. And now we learn from the government that we no longer need these funds. Recently, President Kaczyński said that we were going to change our policy towards the European Union and announced that this was the end of pleasant discussions. Please note that no such thing is happening with these announcements yet. Morawiecki, accepting the principle of conditionality, that is to say the payment of European funds to meet certain expectations of the EU, made a dent and showed the hypocrisy of the government. On the one hand, the government calls itself for a Europe of fatherlands and sovereign states, and on the other, it is the government that has done the most to accelerate the federalization of Europe. The Lisbon Treaty was supported by the two Kaczyński brothers in 2008, which implied a change in the vote count in the Union, which weakened Poland’s position on the international scene. The KPO was agreed, that is to say the de facto communisation of the debt and the possibility for the EU to impose common taxes. These are milestones on the road to the federalization of the Union, and the official propaganda of the ruling camp is against federalization, which only shows the hypocrisy of the PiS power.

If you claim that Mateusz Morawiecki acted to the detriment of Poland in international politics, should he bear the consequences and appear before the State Court?

I was a judge at the State Court and I know that bringing someone before him and successfully convicting him is a very complicated and long procedure. The responsibility in this case is symbolic. What does it mean not to work for ten years? I don’t know what will happen after the elections if the opposition comes to power, which is not a foregone conclusion. There will be attempts to bring some politicians to the TS. I remind you that a qualified majority is needed in the Tribunal, for example three-fifths in the Sejm. Will the opposition gather as much in decisive votes? I do not know. I assume settlements with previous authorities will be fairly normal procedures. In the case of state treasury companies, there may be, for example, allegations of mismanagement or abuse of power, which will be pending in the ordinary courts.

Will you run as a candidate on the Senate Pact list in the legislative elections or as an independent senator?

I intend to appear on my own committee, but the situation could change.

Should the opposition take Jarosław Gowin on his letters?

The announcements of the leaders of the opposition, mainly of the PO and the New Left, on the cooperation with Gowin are not favorable to him. The situation is dynamic. The question is how the opposition will be able to agree on future joint governments if it wins the elections. Here’s the key to Gowin’s political future.

cooperation Karol Ikonowicz